Hopefully you enjoyed our discussion about Joe and his father today. If so, I have another one for you. This is from a video posted on youtube. It present the famous Heinz Dilemma and is interactive. Once you come to the end of the video you make your choice and it will explain which level of moral development you are reasoning from. It's pretty cool! Check it out it and try the multiple options. It may help you better identifiy Kohlberg's stages.
I can see how there can be much argument over a topic like this. I think the question that you should be asking yourself is "What is more important to me, widely accepted laws and/or rules that somebody made up at some time, or the safety and security of you and your loved ones?" In my opinion, safety and security always come first. So if I was the man in the Heinz dilemma I would steal the drug. I am not sure if I would accept the penalty or not. I'm going to have to think about it some more.
ReplyDeletePsychologyGeek5 you are definitely making a postconventional argument here.
ReplyDeleteI think the man in the Heinz dilemma should steal the drug and he shouldn’t go to jail for because while stealing is wrong, so is the excessively high price of the drug. I think it would be hard to live with yourself if someone you loved died and you could have done something to stop it. It may not be socially morally correct to steal the drug, but it isn't right to let someone die because the man didn't have enough money, either. I think this demonstrates the post-conventional stage because it deals with the principles to make a good society but it opposes the social conventional thought that sealing is wrong.
ReplyDeleteI chose that the man steal the drug but not receive any criminal repercussions; after all, saving the life of a loved one is much more important than abiding by government rules, in my opinion. I wouldn't go as far to say that afterwards he should live freely and go on beaches like the animation showed, but rather pay the difference of the drug when he saved up the money; letting anybody run around stealing things without paying for it would indeed cause a chaotic world. Besides... what pharmaceutical company wouldn't let you have expensive medication while giving you a payment plan to help space out the payments?
ReplyDeleteI think it is obvious that the man should do whatever is necessary to ensure the safety of his loved ones over his personal safety. The dilemma is more about who is in the wrong, the drug manufacturer, breaking unwritten moral rules or the man, breaking the law. Because the drug manufacturer is seeking personal gain over his duty to improve the health of others,while the man is risking himself for another,the man should steal the drug and get away with it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with bulldogs2, Heinz should steal the drug and not go to jail. Besides, the video mentioned that the company is selling the drug for ten times its worth, so if Heinz has half the money the company is still (quintupling..?)x5 its profit. Besides, a life is more important than money every time
ReplyDeleteThis is definitely a tough decision to make. I feel like all of the choices would be hard to live with because both stealing and letting a loved one die when they could be helped are wrong. Stealing is wrong in more of a social aspect, and is taught to be wrong from a young age, but letting a loved one die is something that would weigh on your conscious. Nobody can be taught how to respond in this kind of a situation.Having to make any decision would be hard. This was a very cool way to teach these stages!
ReplyDeleteI do believe the man should steal the drug, but then he should take the punishment. I agree with the comment above that it may not be morally correct to steal it, but it also isn't right to let the women die. I think he should take the punishment though because other people could have "reasons" for stealing things, but they still get sent to jail.
ReplyDeleteI think Lawrence Kohlberg was accurate in categorizing our moral development in three stages. We all do go through these at some point of time in our life. The question is what do we choose to follow? And based on Kohlberg's three stages, one can figure out where he or she is heading.
ReplyDeleteI agree somewhat with bullsdog2's comment about how stealing the drug is wrong and so is the excessive high price of the drug; however, you still cannot just go around stealing a really expensive drug and expect no punishment. I do feel as if he should steal the drug so his wife can survive, but I also think that he should accept whatever punishment the court sees fit. His wife will be healthy and alive so therefore him serving some jail time should not be a problem at all. My decision was classified as in the conventional stage because it goes along with following the rules and fulfilling social roles.
ReplyDeleteIf I were in the Heinz dilemma I would steal the drug. If I was caught I would argue that any punishment is unfair because I don't think the drug company should charge so much for a drug they know most people won't be able to afford, especially if it is necessary to treat a disease/illness. I understand that the company wants to charge a lot for the drug because it spent a lot on research, but I think they should find another way to make money besides overcharging on its new drug.
ReplyDeleteI was marked at Pre-Conventional in this scenario but not for the right reason in my opinion. I marked that Heinz shouldn't steal the drug because if that was actually me in the same situation, I would go at obtaining the drug and helping my wife in a different manner than any of the three options listed. It seems that maybe Kohlberg could add a fourth stage for religious beliefs or somehow incorporate that into one of the stages, maybe depending on how your religious beliefs/values affect how you act in a given situation.
ReplyDeleteI really like bulldog2's argument. I too think that Heinz should steal the drug! I rather be sent to jail unjustly than to let someone I love die for an invalid reason. If you steal the drug you may go to jail, but if you don't you are for sure killing your spouse. It's an awful situation, but death is permanent; jail is not. This is Post-conventional because you are sticking to your beliefs rather than the rules of society.
ReplyDeleteI think Heinz has every right to steal the drug. The video said that the company is selling the drug for ten times it's worth and that isn't right in any way. Stealing is bad, however Heinz is stealing to help a life, and life is far more important. Heinz should not be charged. The company may have a reason for having the price set so high, but Heinz has a reason to take the drug to save a life. The drug is also a must for treating this illness so Heinz shouldn't be charged.
ReplyDeletei think that Heinz should not have stolen the drug, although he felt he had no choice. The drug company wasn't understanding at all and in order to save a loved one from illness, he could either just sit there or spring into action. Personally, i wouldn't do it just because I don't have the bravery or stupidity to commit a crime. The options listed don't seem very realistic, but they are very good in going into detail about Kohlberg's list of morality.
ReplyDeleteIf I were in this situation I would steal the drug. I think what helps me make a Post- Conventional decision is that I am able to put myself in another man's shoes. If my wife was dying and a certain drug could only save her, I would do whatever to get that product. I think since it is cynical for the drug company to charge an outrageous price, law enforcement would understand and offer reasonable punishment to me and the company because it was vital to my partner's survival.
ReplyDeleteI chose the option to steal the drug and not get criminal charges, but where is the option to steal the drug and not get caught? That way the company wouldn't know they were being stolen from and the wife could live.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very difficult decision but if I had to choose one, then I think the man should take the drug but face his punishment afterwards. I dont believe it is fair that the drug company is charging so much for a drug that could potentionally help a lot of people.Serving a few years in jail for your wifes is not a huge issue one would think, as long as she lived.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Heinz should steal the drug and accept whatever punishment he may recieve. It is not right to steal so he would be punished, however if he loves his wife he knows what he has to do...he has to get it for her. This would be a really tough situation if it was real life! I agree that this would be the conventional stage and I agree with the organization of Kohlbergs stages.
ReplyDeleteTo me, this was an easy choice. To not steal the drug was the obivous answer in my morality book. I even clicked on the try again button to pick another choice but still ended up picking for him not to steal the drugs because I knew I did not agree one bit with either of the other two choices. Obviously it is unfair that the company is charging this ridiculous amount of money for the drug but this is just a part of life that he has to accept. Plenty of other cancer patients have lost their lives because of the cost. Not everyone can be saved. Otherwise, there would be over population and the value of the dollar would be completely different. Everything has a way of working itself out. Even if he did steal the drug, there is still the possibility that it wouldn't work on her and he would also have to deal with the consequences. I think I got labeled in the Pre-conventional stage because I am not one to take risks or go against orders. I'm not one to take conseqences as not a big deal. I was raised to do as your parents say or you will forever regret it.
ReplyDeleteThis video gives a very interesting look at what happens all the time. When we think about it, all of it seems unfair and unjust because his wife needs the drug and may die if she doesn't get the drug. It is easy to justify why he should steal it and not get put in jail. We all want to have are family for as long as humanly possible.
ReplyDeleteI feel that the correct answer is to not steal the drug. Although his wife is dying, she will either way, the drug just pushes that fate back. The ceo is in the wrong for not helping Heinz, but just because of that Heinz doesn't have the right to defy him in any means possible.
ReplyDeleteWhile everyone one knows that stealing is wrong and we are brought up to learn that we should not do it, I think that Heinzshould steal the drug to save his wife. This is because of the fact that not only was the company charging him an extreme amount of money for the drug, but he promised them that if the company gace him the drug, he would pay them what he had then, and pay the rest later. However, the company wouldn't except his fair offer, so I think that he should have the right to save his wife if others won't help him. I was labeled in the post conventional stage, which makes sense because Heinz would be making sure there was justice when there wasn't any with the pharmacy.
ReplyDeleteIf I was in this situation I would steal the drug and accept whatever punishment comes afterwards. While stealing is morally wrong in almost every situation, this is one situation where I believe that it would be justified. I would rather spend some time in jail than spend the rest of my life without a loved one that I know I could have saved. The regret that would come from losing them would be worse than spending time in jail.
ReplyDeleteI picked that he should not steal the drug. A law is a law, and in real life, it is more likely that Heinz could acquire the money in some way. Unfortunately the video ended in his wife's death. Even if he had stolen the drug, it may or may not have worked, leaving him to deal with the consequences of a crime and live in misery himself.
ReplyDeleteI said that he should steal the drug and face the prison time. If I was in his position I would do whatever I could to help her get better. obviously he doesn't have the money so stealing the drug would be the only thing to do. Since he is stealing he would then have to accept the punishment, but it would be worth it in the end.
ReplyDeleteI chose to steal the drug and go to jail. However, I feel that few people in this situation in real life would think that they would be able to steal this drug and escape going to jail. I think that this is not an accurate determinant of a person's moral development as the situation is too unrealistic based on how society operates.
ReplyDeleteI chose the option to steal the drug without going to jail which landed me in the post-conventional stage. However I would want him to leave the money he did have for the company. That way he's paying all he could, and all the company should morally accept. Leaving the money would relieve him of his cognitive dissonance; not that relieving his cognitive dissonance is completely moral either. But the company is being immoral right now so he would be fighting against that for a greater good (saving the girl's life.)
ReplyDeleteOver the summer I went to a business program, and they asked us to debate what we would do in response to this situation. It amazed me that people had so many different opinions on the topic, especially because each individual's view seemed to result from their environment as they were raised. Some kids focused greatly on abiding by the laws set forth, and others argued that love and safety were more important. I tend to side with the argument that Heinz should steal the drug and not be sent to prison because it just would not be fair. Safety and looking after loved ones is extremely important, as is doing whatever you can to protect them. At the same time, think of a world in which everyone broke the rules if they were trying to help the ones they loved. It would be chaos! That's why we've developed rules and laws in the first place. It's a relatively easy choice if you only consider Heinz's situation from his point of view, but if you consider a whole society in which everyone acts this way, it's a bit harder to discern what would be right.
ReplyDeleteI think that he should steal the drug because in all reality any punishment less of the death penalty would be better than his wife dying. I would hope that he would not be punished after explaining his case, but even if he was it would be worth it. A life is a life.
ReplyDeleteThis would be a very difficult decision if I was put in Henry's place. It would be hard to not try and get the drug another way but stealing it and possibly going ot jail would be proposterous. I made the decision to not steal it so I was a pre-conventional person.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Letsgettropical2. I think that when you love someone enough and know that you're losing them, you will do anything to help keep them here. This may or may not include the consequences. I'm sure I would accept the consequences because I did, after all, commit the crime; however, if you don't get caught will your subconscious keep you in a mental prison of guilt? If you can justify that what you did was for something bigger than yourself--say, a person you'd die for-- then this shouldn't be a problem. Of course you should feel SOME guilt, but if you're doing it for the right reasons (in your eyes) then the "crime" can be justified.
ReplyDeleteThis is obviously a very tough decision to make and I would never wish it upon anyone but IF I had to chose I would chose not to steal the drug. As hard of a decision that would be I don't know if I could live with the regret of stealing anything. The way I was raised and the moral I have lead me to say that I would not steal the drug, but hopefully I would never be in that situation.
ReplyDeletei think i would make the decision to steal the drug. hat i dont agree with though is to steal the drug and then go to jail.I think it is unfair to go to jail when he was just getting the drug to save his own wifes life.That is not ethical.I am obviously in the post conventional stage or moral developement
ReplyDeleteMy choice would be to steal the drug, but it is not fair to go to jaill for it. He is doing it to save his own wifes life and not for his own selfish needs. It would be unethical for him to be punished for that. I am obviously in the post conventional stage of moral developement.
ReplyDeleteNo matter which choice Henry makes there will be tough consequences. The choice I would make would have to be steal the drug and go to jail because of it. Under Kohlburg I would be in the conventional stage of development. This stage includes following society rules and expectations. I believe that people go through these stages at different times in their life and somepeople will never reach the post conventional stage.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Heinz should steal the drug to save his wife and take any prison sentence. If he loves his wife he will sacrifice anything for her. Although I found it unfair that the worker of the company wouldn't take an exception for a man who doesn't have any money and his wife is dying although he even proposed a solution that he will pay it off when he gets the money. But since the worker didn't agree I think Heinz should steal it and take any prison sentence because it can save someone who he loves and his wife will live.
ReplyDelete-Shishiswag77
I really enjoy these interactive little games! but i would steal the drug. I always feel the need to have to do whatever i can for someone, even if it's hard. It would be hard for me to allow someone to die knowing there is a drug out there. So that puts me in the post conventional stage of moral development.
ReplyDeleteThis was a really hard decision, especially because its all hypothetical, also its easy to be moral and say someone else should do the right thing, but what if that were your mom or dad etc? Would you be able to stand by and do nothing for them? Do good intentions negate bad decisions? I believe most of us would like to say we would do what's socially acceptable and not steal the drugs, however until you are in situation you never know how you will react due to your emotions.
ReplyDeleteHe should steal the drug and not get punished. This agrees with a song by the band N.W.A. (N***** Wit Attitudes), of which rapper Eazy E (real name Eric Wright, look him up on wikipedia) is a member of. The song title is to profane to post here but it is about the band's disdain for law enforcement.
ReplyDelete@Psycho8, yes not stealing is the "right" option in obeying the rules, but I personally agree with dcbcbg2. I would also like to add to dcbcbg2's comment by noting that the man is risking the consequences upon himself to save some someone else. I find that to be an honorable act in itself, putting him in the right to steal the drug.
ReplyDeleteI chose the he should steal the drug but then be willing to go to jail for his choice. Yes a loved one was dying and he had the right to do anything short of murder to save her, but he still broke the laws that had been laid out for the good of everyone. If he wanted to he could probably counter sue or something to that degree to fight the monopoloy of the pharmaceutical agency. the problem here is that the system is broken. Life saving supplies should be available to those who need it.
ReplyDeleteThe video does a good job of showing the different stages of moral development. It’s easier to see how only being worried about punishment is pre-conventional with this example.
ReplyDeleteI picked not stealing the drug, even though it is ridiculously overpriced, if everyone who needed it the went and stole it the inventors who make it wouldn't produce profit then they wouldn't have money to keep making the drug then they would stop making it altogether- or on the other hand they would just lower the price. If it was me who couldn't afford the drug, I would try every other drug listed as a possible cure and if they didn't work I would start a protest for the company to lower the cost..
ReplyDeleteHeinz is in a horrible situation, and even after talking to the ceo of the company, he is no closer to having a good solution to his problem. There are many other factors that aren't included in this video, like the age of his wife, because she might be ready to die. But for this example, I would choose to steal the drug and face the punishments. The punishments should not be harsh, because just about everyone would do anything they can to save the one person they love.
ReplyDeleteI got labeled as the conventional stage of developement, and agree with it. Although it is wrong to steal the drug, he is doing what is he thinks is right, saving the one he loves the most.
ReplyDeleteI also chose the option for Heinz to steal the drug and accept any kind of punishment. I believe this option would be commonly picked because we have been raised to always follow the rules and with every action comes consequences so we accept that Heinz will have to go to jail. But most of us also have a sense of empathy toward Heinz and his wife and want her to surive, so we want Heinz to take the drug. This is not a realistic option though and I do agree with "Psycho8" that it is a sad way of life that needs to be accepted
ReplyDeleteI think he should steal the drug to help his wife, but should still go to prison if he's caught. He did the crime, so its only fair. Otherwise, people could steal but yet, if they were found to have a good reason behind it not go to prison. That would get taken advantage of very quickly. It's a very difficult decision though.
ReplyDeleteShame on that CEO. He has no soul. I know if it were me i would steal the drug or do anything to save my loved one because i would not be able to live with myself if i knew there was something i could have done to save them. However i do know stealing is wrong and no one should get away with not following the rules. Therefore i would steal the drug and then accept the consequences. If you think about it that way you are giving up your life for the life of your loved one. I rather live out my life in prison knowing i saved a loved ones life than live alone with grief and guilt.
ReplyDelete